timber bamboo in zone 7

[sco0212]

I would like to get into commercial bamboo farming for timber and shoots and is looking for acrerage.
I know it is better to grow bamboo in zone 8/9 but I am in NY, so the best I can get is zone 7.

Does anybody have any experience growing timber bamboo in zone 7 successfully?
If so, what species, and how thick in diameter and how tall they get?

Thanks in advance. Look to hear back from you.


Nelson

[sco0212]

Hi. While I am still waiting for someone to response and advise.
I also want to know if my planting plan make sense.

When I find my acreage, I am thinking of planting the Phyllostachys parvifolia (among others) with a spacing of about 15 ft and with control barrier or trench around. As shown in the attached drawing.
Then any shoots that comes out in the middle will be harvested and sold as shoots.
and the rest will grow for timber. What do you think?

Additional questions.
1. Isn't it, the 15ft spacing will continue to grow new shoots/bamboo.
Some suggested that while waiting for the bamboo to grow to maturity, farm other things.
Any suggestion on what can be planted? Or should I just leave it?
Will new shoots come out while I plant say vegetables or fruit trees on the 15ft spacing?

2. Will the section I plan to harvest the shoots continue to have new shoots every year after harvest?

Thanks,
Nelson

[dependable]

Sounds like fun project. The 15 ft spacing should work fine. For optimal spacing for the purpose of screening alone I generally plant at between 5 and 8 ft apart.

I am in zone 7a, timber bamboos that I have that grow well here include:
Phyllostachys auerosulcata,
" " , alata
" " , aurea
" " ,spectabilis.......All 4 of these very good all around bamboos.
P vivax,
P " , aueocaulis.................................The vivaxs have largest culms, but thin walled
P bisseti.................................................Probably most cold hardy, fast growing
P decora
P flexiosa
P nuda...................................................Cold hardy, strongest, thickest culm walls, slow growing for Phyllo
P nigra
P nigra henon
P nigra borida ........................................The nigras do well only in full sun, not as cold & wind hardy as most of above plants. Nigra only one with colorfast culm.
P rubromaginata seems promising but have not had it long enough to see max height.

I would suggest using a mix of species for different uses and also so you don't loose it all should one species flower. P flexiosa is the only one that I know has flowed recently. Except for dark purple culm sheath, is somewhat unremarkable green bamboo.

Interplant with anything you want to grow. If nothing else, use a deep rooted legume to improve soil fertility. Trees might be a bit of investment if you intend to let it all go to bamboo, I think.

Most of above bamboos grow to their listed height and culm thickness, eventually, in this location, but my vivax has 'only' reached 50 ft and just under 3 in culm.

[Alan_L]

I wouldn't plant fruit trees, as they'll only really start producing about the same time that the bamboo starts taking off. I think vegetables and so on is a good idea though. Make sure that you have your soil prepared at the start, as you'll not want to be tilling any of the space once rhizomes move into it.

I think z7 is perfect for bamboo (as dependable has noted) -- that's the zone I wish I were growing in.

[jd.]

Phyllostachys parvifolia is an excellent choice for shoot flavor, shoot size, and cold tolerance.

You can also harvest shoots around the perimeter to increase the effectiveness of your barrier plan.

You can plant vegetables or a cover crop amid the bamboos while waiting for them to fill in. Consider covering the area nearest the bamboos with organic mulch to retain soil moisture and to mitigate weed competition.

Most parvifolia shoots emerge in the spring. Mowing the nearby vegetation before shooting season will make new bamboo shoots easier to spot.

Shoots will emerge year after year in the area surrounding the mature culms.

Does anybody have any experience growing timber bamboo in zone 7 successfully?

I grow bamboos in hardiness zone 5, but most suffer total top-kill every winter and fail to reach timber size. So far, Phyllostachys parvifolia is the only bamboo here that has produced edible shoots of sufficient practical size when the husks are removed.

[sco0212]

Thank you all so much for your responses. Your experiences and advises are very helpful.
Putting all these together, my plan will be:

Planting number of species (parvifolia, nuda, etc) of bamboo with spacing around 10 ft; harvest shoots on the middle and around the perimeter; plant legumes and vegetables while waiting for the bamboo to fill and shoots to come. I think I can have both vegetable and shoots on the middle and perimeter year after year.

Now, my next action plan is to start looking for the acreage.

Thanks again.

Nelson

[Franco]

Might try P. Dulcis as well. Excellent shoot flavour, hardy, quick grower, and good timber quality, likely to top out at roughly 25-30 feet in zone 7.

[sco0212]

Thanks Franco. I will add P. Dulcis to my list.

So far, these are the species I think I may end up with for timber and flavorful shoots.
P. parvifolia
P. dulcis
P. edulis (Moso)
P. nuda

BTW, I have a question to everyone. If I have multiple species and plant them in groups as shown in the drawing. Should I have a barrier or trench between species and if not will they spread out and mix with each other?

Thanks,
Nelson

[dependable]

They will spread out and mix with each other. One way to deal with that is to let them spread and plant bamboos that have culms different enough from each other you can pick them out in a mix. Some barriers will work too, but maybe wait to see what is thriving in your location before investing in dividing barriers. If you are using 3 to 5 types, (which I would advise) you will see which one(s) thrive and need to be kept out of others.

In good conditions, it will be 3 to 5 years before groves get a lot of momentum. As they say:

first it sleeps, then it creeps, then it leaps.

[terrabamboo]

My experiences:

First question: Do you have time ...or... money on your side?

If you have money, go with larger plants ("ball and burlap", 24"), you may only need a FEW plants per ACRE. I am proving out this theory now. If you have to start with small 3ga pots, then I would go 20' spacing -- because within 3 years the bamboo will grow at least 20' in all directions -- and maybe up to 50 depending on species and fertilization and irrigation programs. 10' spacing is overkill. and you should not start harvesting shoots until year three; You will slow the overall time-to-maturity.

personally I think you will have much luck with parvifolia and p. nigra (henon) as far as timber goes up in zone 7. Moso is what everyone knows outside of bamboo enthusiasts but I have not been as impressed with its hardiness (drought and cold) compared to p. nigra and p. virdis - robert young -- another one to look into.


what kind of acreage are you planning?
this will decide the fate of your border management. you cannot expect to trench 15,000 feet perimeter. I have many ideas on how to manage 15,000 feet perimeter but none of have been executed at this point so I cannot give you any facts. Trenching, not including machine/labor, is about $2500/acre in materials (@$3/liner foot). That is why other members have suggested the shoot production coming from your outside edges because that will be your first line of defense in border management.


cheers,
tb

[sco0212]

Thanks dependable. I think I may want to group them as shown in the attached drawing instead and harvest the shoots between them. Selling mix shoots I think should be fine.

Thanks tb. I know it will take about 10 years for the bamboo to fully mature but during those 10 years, I can harvest shoots in Spring and maybe vegetables in between seasons.
My wishful thinking is if I start this as part time now, in 10 years when retire from my current job, I can do this full time and start harvesting timber/shoots year after year.

My plan is to start with 5 gallon pot in a 10 acres land. I read somewhere that starting with large plant doesn't produce a lot more as opposed to smaller pot.
Yes, species to be planted should be considered when deciding on spacing. In one website site, 5m (~16ft) is the suggested spacing. Anyway, I will have to see what species I end up with.
I will take note about harvesting shoots until year three.
Based on what I read, Moso (edulis) is thick and good for flooring, etc, that's I am considering it.

Harvesting shoots around the perimeter for border management is a good idea which jd also suggested.

Regards,
Nelson

[jd.]

Layout 3 looks good and practical. To more efficiently fill a block with multiple rows, consider staggering the rows such that every plant in a second row is equidistant to two plants in a first row.

I second tb's comment about size and spacing.

Fewer larger bamboo plants will establish themselves more readily than many smaller plants at a closer spacing.

Based on what I read, Moso (edulis) is thick and good for flooring, etc, that's I am considering it.

Moso requires favorable conditions to grow thick and large. Gaining the full potential of moso's qualities requires a coastal climate with good humidity where the summers are not too hot and the winters are not too cold. This implies choosing land along the coast if you're serious about growing moso.

For thickness, you may also consider Phyllostachys makinoi. Flora of China reports that the culms grow with walls up to 1 cm thick and that this tough bamboo is used for building and furniture. Makinoi shoots are sold commercially in Asia and in a few North American grocery stores on the west coast.

Significantly, Phyllostachys makinoi is a hardier bamboo than moso.

[dependable]

Not an expert on shoot production, but I think eating quality varies enough that mixed shoots would be less desirable. On the other hand, if the types you are growing have different culm sheaths, identifying them at shooting time is easy.

If you start with plants that are too small, they can get set back by animals , weather, etc, a lot easier than something of medium size. Really large divisions from mature stands are sometimes hard to keep watered and standing up, pruning culms, while leaving some branches helps. Medium sized plugs (with a lot of root mass) from edge of actively growing grove seem to take hold best. 5 gallon pot is on the small side, biomass wise, but if they are very healthy , planted at right time and well cared for, they should work.

Since you are in planning stage, maybe ask around and see if anyone is removing a stand. If you come on some root clumps from a grove that was cut down and dug out for removal, they will work too.

[jd.]

Really large divisions from mature stands are sometimes hard to keep watered and standing up, pruning culms, while leaving some branches helps.

Large divisions are best planted with an excavator or a wide hydraulic tree spade to keep the root structure intact.

5 gallon pot is on the small side, [...]

With fertile soil, a five gallon size division or larger can yield good growth in several years. Amending the soil with plenty of organic material before planting allows an initially smaller bamboo to perform better than a larger bamboo in less fertile soil.

[Tarzanus]

Like already mentioned, large plant will mature faster, but it may be harder to plant it. With smaller plants, you can pamper it and it will soon start exploding. In a couple of years I doubt you would see any difference in size.