T C inferiority complex

[moriphen]

I did I walk through myself today and snapped a few pictures of F. sp. 'Scabrida' both the TC and the clump division. I've added summer 2009 pics of each plant for a better idea of how they started winter. The TC was weak against white fly and had to be sprayed, while the clump division never had this problem. I read up on this and it would seem to indicate the TC never hardened its leaves, while the clump division was able too. The TC never shooted, while the clump division aborted shoots mid summer. Water is run through a timed mister/drip system and fertilizer with iron was added at the same time in a measured amount to both plants. Soil type is clay loam leaning acidic, with a mature 50+ year old tulip tree canopy overhead.
TC July 2009:



TC Jan 2010:





Clump Division Sept 2009:



Clump Division Jan 2010:



M

[needmore]

Do you know with any certainty that your clump plant is not a TC plant? I've been wondering if there are any/many non-TC F. scabrida out there? Mine is TC for sure.

My initial comment on TC plants is I believe the theory is that tissue culture propagation is supposed to be a low cost method that is expected to drive down plants costs due to the ability to produce large numbers of new plants relatively easily. I have seen zero evidence of TC plants being lower cost at retail or having any price impact in the market so for me it begs the question, why would anyone opt for the TC plant given the concern about performance if a non-TC option is available at the same price?

At the wholesale level I do see TC plans offered at a lower price than I could get traditional divisions for, but one has to place very large orders for very small plants. Then, most nurseries are up-potting these relatively inexpensive liner plants into 1-gallon pots and growing them out for 1 year or getting the 1-3 gal TC plants at whole sale and growing those out or dividing them. In any case the bamboo nurseries are usually holding them for a season or more and by the time they hit market they are priced at market 1 gallon prices rather than as any type of discounted TC plant. When they go to market the nursery has a year of labor plus fertilizer, water, soil and pot invested so to make a profit they understandably raise the price up.

To me this explains why F. dracocephala 'Rufa' 1 gallons are priced at the non-TC 1 gallon price and seems reasonable but - and I may be remembering incorrectly - the F. scabrida liners cost about the same as the 'Rufa' yet the market 1 gallon price is often seriously higher, so if this is correct then the nursery is pricing at market price rather than at cost plus some standard margin, which is certainly their option - it happens in my industry the grocery business 'variable margin pricing' where you price low on price sensitive items and then look for other areas to recoup that lower profit by pricing at higher margins on non price sensitive items.

In any case, as it currently stands, unless you can buy $1,500 or so minimum order for liners, TC plants are not reducing market prices for end-line consumers so with no economic advantage and concern about performance, TC plant consumers are probably going to be mostly limited to the general public 'non-bamboo addicted' consumer at large garden centers. If the performance over time is poor then that will be their bamboo experience.

[mantis]

Needmore, great post.

[moriphen]

The clump division is from http://www.bamboogarden.com/Fargesia%20 ... rida'.html I am rather confident the 1 gal is not a TC plant.

M

[watchnerd]

Do you know with any certainty that your clump plant is not a TC plant? I've been wondering if there are any/many non-TC F. scabrida out there? Mine is TC for sure.

I recently got a F. Scabrida. How can I tell if it's TC or not?

It was ordered from Bamboo Garden. It seems in great shape, but this is my first Fargesia, so maybe I just don't know any better.

[stevelau1911]

Since I don't believe in anything until I see for myself, I got a couple of TC denudata on purpose just to see if they are indeed less hardy than non TC bamboos. At around 24F in the GH they started getting leaf burn, and since the GH got down to 14F, it looks like they might be top-killed. The fargesia rufa & fargesia nitida divisions that were taken last fall that were kept in the greenhouse were unharmed by the cold. Even the moso seedlings which are supposed to not be very hardy retained some green leaves, and their culms held up which leads me to believe TC plants are not very cold hardy.

I was planning to get a TC kit, and trying it out myself with bamboos, but TC plants can't even take a freeze, it will be pointless. TC is however supposed to work well with other plants such as bananas.


It really bothers me too because given that it is supposed to be an exact clone of the plant, I don't see why they lose their cold hardiness. Maybe there's something beyond just genetics, and bamboos continually acclimatize to their environment the longer they live or something, but I'll probably never find out.

[watchnerd]

Yeah, but you just compared not just TC versus non-TC, but also completely different species. Too many variables in that equation.

[Alan_L]

And your sample size is way too small.

My first 'Rufa' was probably TC (from boo-shoot) and is quite cold-hardy.

[ocimum_nate]

I would tend to agree with Allen I have a tc rufa from Booshoots that has done quite well. It is hard to say what all is going into the overall picture. I have noticed that Rufa looks best when put in shade it gets taller and seems to size up well. The other rufa plants I have are in more sun and they tend to be more squat and don't size up nearly as quickly. I also suspect that there is some transitioning that happens with tc plants if they struggle in this transitioning they may never match non tc because plant growth is exponential. Also another point to consider tc is done in very sterile conditions. Tc plants may not have innoculation to help them the same way a division would growing in soil. Just a few points to consider.